Jackie Zach
October 25, 2024
Discover key insights on leadership and team dynamics with hosts Mike McKay and Jackie Zach in this thought-provoking episode of the Tough Love for Business podcast. They emphasize the need for leaders to engage their employees by asking how they would like to be led, rather than assuming they share the same perspective. By fostering open communication and actively seeking feedback, leaders can better support their teams, leading to enhanced success and a more collaborative environment. The discussion highlights that effective leadership involves lifting others up and removing obstacles to their success.
Mike and Jackie also point out that many leaders mistakenly focus on how their team can enhance their image rather than prioritizing team members’ growth. They advocate for a leadership approach that flips the traditional hierarchy, encouraging leaders to support their employees actively. The conversation stresses that autonomy in the workplace should be framed positively, as it allows employees to excel rather than undermine the organization. For those managing larger teams, the hosts recommend developing organizational strategies to ensure effective leadership, ultimately aiming for a more connected and successful workplace.
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Podcast Transcript:
Mike McKay: Welcome to the Tough Love for Business podcast. My name is Mike McKay, and I’m here with my co-host, Jackie Zach. What’s up, Jackie?
Jackie Zach: Not much! What’s up with you? I’m very excited because it’s mid-February, and I can see spring on the horizon. I’m really looking forward to it.
Mike: That’s great! What do you feel like expressing?
Jackie: Just that! I’m looking forward to spring!
Mike: Thanks, Jackie. What I feel like expressing is that someday, I’m going to move out of Wisconsin, but not this year. We’ll see how many more seasons we can take of it. Maybe I’ll just move closer to Lake Michigan to get a little buffer from the lake water temperature.
Jackie: Awesome! A little more snow and cooler summers make it beautiful.
Mike: All right, what are we talking about today?
Jackie: We are discussing how to ask your team how they would like to be led instead of guessing what they need.
Mike: Yes, there’s an ongoing theme here. We often meet entrepreneurs who believe their employees think like them. They wonder, “Why can’t my people see things the way I do?” The reality is, they don’t have the same perspective. If they did, they would own the company, not you. But how do you lead people when you have this misconception that they’re not as smart as you?
Jackie: Exactly! And keep in mind, they don’t have all the information either. You have the business knowledge. You’ve been pondering the issues for a long time, yet you expect your employees to think like you do without the same context.
Mike: And they shouldn’t.
Jackie: Yes, because that’s your job.
Mike: So, how do you get your team to execute the plans you’ve made without sharing them? It’s frustrating when you don’t communicate your expectations and then wonder why things didn’t get done.
To that point, why not just ask them? Leadership is hard work. We discussed our culture point of commitment, which emphasizes giving 100% to everything, including leadership. If you want to be a leader, you need to take all the steps necessary, not just some. This includes understanding who you’re leading and how they want to be led.
People appreciate adult conversations. You should ask, “What do you need from me to be successful?” Instead of simply asking, “What do you want from my leadership?” it’s better to ask, “How can I help you be successful?” Understanding their preferred communication style—whether they’re visual, auditory, or kinesthetic—can make a significant difference. If you want their best effort, you need to provide clear guidance and opportunities.
The truth is, people don’t wake up thinking, “I want to do a bad job today.” They want to succeed, but you must be clear about how to support them. Remember, your team isn’t sitting around thinking about your thoughts. People may need to hear things up to 17 times before they sink in. If you’re the leader, and you’ve had numerous internal discussions about a topic, you might assume everyone is on the same page when they aren’t.
Jackie: Right, and one thing I appreciate about you as a leader is your willingness to take feedback. I don’t know what happens after the feedback is given, but I tend to give you homework, which I think is funny because it should be the other way around.
Mike: And it’s useful for me, too.
Jackie: Yes, because it helps you understand me better.
Mike: I believe that the ultimate expression of leadership is to help people reach higher, accomplish more, and become more capable and confident because they have our support. If I have to lead from the front, I still consider the organizational chart to be upside down. I recognize the strategies we need to focus on, but on a day-to-day basis, we should be lifting people up to help them achieve more. Otherwise, what’s the point of having them on your team?
Jackie: A leader’s job also includes removing obstacles to success.
Mike: Yes, and many leaders focus on how their team can make them look good instead of how they can help their team shine. Individuals are limited in what they can accomplish. You may extend your reach through writing or communication, but you can’t make a real impact on more than seven or eight people at a time.
If you’re managing a larger team, it’s challenging to lead effectively. The military, for example, has a long history of leadership study, and they limit the number of people reporting to one leader to eight because of the time required for effective leadership. In my early days as a lieutenant, I had three people reporting to me because I was expected to spend ample time with each, extending my influence through them to their teams.
If you have many people reporting to you, it can feel impossible to lead well. But if you have a manageable number of direct reports, you can step up and learn how to lead them effectively. It’s a lot of work, but it’s manageable.
Jackie: Communication is key. Asking great questions and having consistent conversations is essential. Spending time together helps leaders understand how each team member wants to be led, without having to ask directly.
Mike: In my experience, the leaders I worked hardest for were those who tried to make my job easier behind the scenes. They were actively working to remove obstacles so I could succeed. It shifts your mindset to view the org chart upside down, where you’re supporting your team. It feels empowering to know your boss is focused on your success, making you feel like you’re not alone in this journey.
Jackie: People want that connection; they want autonomy and clarity about what success looks like in their roles.
Mike: Autonomy can be intimidating, but most people seek it to excel in their roles, not to undermine the company. If you haven’t clearly defined job expectations, autonomy may feel threatening, reflecting a leadership gap. To foster effective leadership, ask your team how they prefer to be led. If you manage more than eight people, consider discussing organizational strategies with Jackie for better results. Effective leadership is crucial, especially in larger teams. Keep pushing forward and succeed in your business!