Jackie Zach
January 25, 2024
In this episode, Jackie Zach and Mike McKay discuss the importance of seeing situations from others’ perspectives and how this mindset can improve communication in both personal and professional settings. They highlight a response from a DarrenDaily episode, where an employee realized that instead of constantly seeking attention from a busy boss, the best approach was to handle their own work and present it in a way that minimized the boss’s workload. This shift in mindset—from blaming others to taking ownership of one’s responsibilities—can lead to more effective communication and productivity. The hosts also explore how our emotional state and personal lens can influence how we interpret others’ actions, especially in professional environments.
The conversation further delves into the dynamic between employees and bosses, with Mike reflecting on his own experiences as a leader. He recognizes that when employees present well-thought-out ideas, it saves time and allows him to focus on the broader vision of the company. The discussion emphasizes the value of preparing ideas in a way that makes it easy for the boss to say yes and execute them. Both Jackie and Mike agree that leaders should empower their teams by trusting them to take ownership and execute their ideas, rather than adding unnecessary input. This approach, they conclude, will lead to a more efficient and motivated team.
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Podcast Transcript:
Jackie Zach: Welcome back to the Make More, Work Less podcast, where we give tough love to business owners. Today, we’re going to discuss seeing things from other people’s perspectives. Darren Hardy recently shared a DarrenDaily episode on this topic, and while I found his message impactful, one comment on that broadcast stood out to me. It really struck me because, as people, we don’t always see things from others’ perspectives. Just look at the current political situation and the constant fighting. We tend to view everything through our own lens, without considering the viewpoint of others.
Mike McKay: And we actually can’t, right? Our lens is our lens, and we can’t change it. But we can try to understand and consider what the other person might be going through, even though we’re still viewing it through our own perspective. But are you going to share that response?
Jackie: Yeah, so basically, from the DarrenDaily, there was a response that said, “This is such a timely message. I had a difficult day yesterday trying to communicate with my boss and mentor, and I think I was very stuck in my own ideas and thoughts. He has been trying to adjust to a much larger workload, getting in at 7:30 a.m. and sometimes staying until seven at night. He is struggling to try and get everything done, and I imagine that the weight of the firm’s success being on his shoulders is very, very heavy.”
This really highlights the importance of seeing things from someone else’s point of view. The person continued, “Even though we had a meeting scheduled several times to go over some priorities, he didn’t have time or mental bandwidth to work with me. The best thing I can do for him is to do everything I can on my own so that I don’t interrupt him. We both care about the work getting done and succeeding, so that’s what I need to figure out. Hand him things packaged with a bow, not a box with lots of assembly required.” I thought that was really, really telling.
Mike: Does that mean you’re going to stop giving me homework?
Jackie: Oh, absolutely not. I’ll keep handing it to you with the assembly required because I know you like that kind of thing.
Mike: Wrapped in a bow, right? It’s fascinating because this mindset affects every area of our lives. For example, when you’re reading someone’s email, you interpret it through your lens. Not only that, but your emotional state at the time influences your reading. Language is governed by the 7-38-55 rule: 7% is words, 38% is tone of voice, and 55% is body language. If you’re missing 93% of the context, you’ll fill in the gaps with your own perspective. If you’ve just had a frustrating experience, you might read that email with a negative tone, assuming the sender is upset, even though they might not be. More often than not, it’s not the sender’s tone you’re reading—it’s your own emotions. If your boss or mentor is busy, it’s unlikely they’re mad at you. They’re just swamped. We all live in our own heads, and we mostly care about how things affect us personally. It’s interesting to watch someone shift from blaming others or making excuses to taking ownership and accountability. This person, for example, went from saying, “My boss canceled our meetings,” to realizing, “The best thing I can do is handle my work and present it to my boss, neatly packaged with a bow.” It’s unusual to hear someone say, “I’ll take responsibility for my situation,” but we all have the opportunity to do that.
Jackie: And if you’re an employee listening to this, this advice might resonate with you. How can you wrap things up as neatly as possible instead of constantly bothering your boss?
Mike: Haha.
Jackie: Why are you laughing?
Mike: Because, as your boss, I’d be bothered.
Jackie: I don’t know that. I won’t know until I try, right?
Mike: It’s the same paradigm, right? We often make assumptions about how our boss will respond, and those assumptions are typically based on our own feelings and thoughts in the moment. We project that onto others, which is really interesting. A big realization for me today was how life acts like a mirror. For example, people keep asking for my opinion, but I know they don’t actually care about it—they’ve already made a decision, and I’m fine with that. If I think something is really wrong, I’ll speak up, but otherwise, I stay on board. It’s hard to do something that can’t be fixed, but what’s interesting is the idea of wondering how my boss or others feel. It’s a bit like being an employee who knows exactly what they want to do and feels accountable, but gets caught up in waiting for validation from someone else. That’s like the person who said, “I’ll just wrap my projects up in a bow and hand it to my boss.” That’s the best I can do for him right now.
It’s also interesting from the boss’s perspective. For much of my career, employees have made themselves look helpless, saying things like, “I don’t know what to do unless you give me direction.” I wasn’t always the sharpest tool in the shed, but my opinion had more weight just because of my title. Still, I didn’t always know what to do. People would come to me with ideas, and sometimes I’d suggest something that worked, or sometimes it didn’t. But what I’ve learned is, when an employee brings a well-formed idea, it’s often far more developed than mine. My ideas are just the start, while theirs are ready to go. When someone hands me an idea all packaged up, my response is, “Great, let’s do it,” because it saves me time. I can focus on the big-picture things—making sure our vision, mission, and culture are clear and passionate. But I’ve realized I’m not giving the team enough credit. If they weren’t worried about my reaction, they’d just execute their ideas. I want my reaction to be positive, to cheer them on, even when things don’t go perfectly. This morning, we spent 35 minutes discussing ideas, but I realized, if one of us was going to do it, it would’ve been done already. So, I finally said, “Great idea. Go do it. What do you need?” For the first time, everyone was on board with just getting it done. When the team believes in what they’re doing, they’ll make it work way better than I could.
Jackie: Exactly. The lesson here is, as an employee, how can you wrap things up nicely to make it easier for your boss to say yes? If you’re a boss, have you communicated to your team that if they hand you a well-packaged idea, it’s more likely to get done? Employees and employers have a lot on their plates. Employers don’t want extra work.
Mike: Right. The owner’s job can seem simpler, but it’s often heavier. It’s not just about doing tasks—it’s about making sure payroll is met, culture is on point, and the mission is being fulfilled. That responsibility often feels bigger than day-to-day tasks. The owner must set the mission, vision, and culture, and protect them to help the business succeed. But be grateful if your team brings you ideas that are ready to deploy.
Marshall Goldsmith talks about “adding too much value,” where you think you need to make something better when it’s already good. Today, we spent 35 minutes discussing ideas, but none of us had useful input. We just kept adding unnecessary suggestions. We think we have to add value, but in reality, the best value is letting the team do it. So, if you’re a boss and your team isn’t executing the way you want, the first step is to look in the mirror and realize you’re not allowing them to perform at their best. Then, read Multipliers by Liz Wiseman, especially Chapter 7, on “Accidental Diminishers,” and Marshall Goldsmith’s Triggers, which outlines leadership traps that lead to less effective teams. It’s amazing that the person who wrote in realized the best thing they could do was take responsibility, do their work well, and hand it off wrapped up because that’s when employees really know what needs to be done.
Jackie: Right. I think the biggest thing anyone can do is make things easy for others—wrap it up nicely so it’s simple to deploy. If it’s easy, it’s more likely to get done. Great insights all around. So, until next time—go kick some ass.