In today’s discussion, hosts Mike McKay and Jackie Zach tackle the concept of perturbation, a state of discomfort and resistance that occurs when someone is pushed to the edge of their comfort zone. Mike likens perturbation to the phase change of water from liquid to steam, highlighting the intense energy and growth potential that come from pushing through discomfort. They discuss how role-playing in sales training initially caused significant perturbation for Jackie, leading her to resist the process. However, through self-reflection and persistence, she overcame her initial resistance, realizing that growth and progress often come from facing such challenges head-on.

Mike emphasizes that perturbation, though uncomfortable, is a critical part of personal and professional development. He shares his own experiences with perturbation, noting that it often feels like an overwhelming barrier but is rooted in changeable beliefs rather than actual dangers. Both hosts agree that breaking through perturbation leads to immediate positive results, whether in personal growth or business success. They also discuss the importance of helping team members navigate their own perturbation, recognizing that while support is essential, individuals must ultimately choose to push through their discomfort to achieve their goals.

Are you or your organization experiencing perturbation and want help navigating? Take advantage of a complimentary business strategy session to discover the opportunities in your business! https://actioncoachwi.com/podcast-ask-a-question-complimentary-session/

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Podcast Transcript

Mike McKay: Welcome back to the Tough Love for Business podcast. I’m one of your hosts, Mike McKay, joined by my co-host, Jackie Zach. Today, we’re talking about perturbation. How do you feel about perturbation, Jackie?

Jackie Zach: It makes me uncomfortable—perturbed, you could say.

Mike: Perturbation is what happens to us right at the edge of our comfort zone. Think of water at 211 degrees—still really hot, but at 212, it turns to steam. That phase change releases a ton of energy, powering things like steam locomotives and power plants. For humans, reaching the edge of our comfort zone can feel like we’re going to explode. Unlike water, we don’t change physical states, but we do manage our emotions. Perturbation sometimes feels like it could kill you, but it’s just rooted in beliefs. Everything in the world is either a fact, like gravity, or it’s a belief we can change. One thing I know has caused perturbation for our team is role-playing. Care to comment on that, Jackie?

Jackie: I don’t disagree at all. Role-playing has caused me a lot of perturbation. I’ll share my experience.

Mike: We’re only two weeks into it, but what’s happened in that time?

Jackie: Well, I can only speak for myself. First, I want to mention that role-playing is essential, especially in sales and marketing. It’s a necessary practice to get better. That said…

Mike: If you can’t tell, Jackie really didn’t like role-playing.

Jackie: I didn’t. I resisted it. I didn’t want to do it, and I didn’t like it. You had to push me into it, though it felt more like forcing. You pushed me out of my comfort zone.

Mike: Until you realize that perturbation is helping you grow, it always feels like you’re being forced.

Jackie: Exactly, which I realized later. I wasn’t an early adopter.

Mike: The first session was rough.

Jackie: Very rough, and I hated every moment. But afterward, I spent a lot of time thinking about my choices. Why would I give up when I’m so close? I had to have a lot of internal conversations, and eventually, I just got over myself. I did much better the next week, but there were a few days of uncertainty.

Mike: How did it feel the second week? I saw a whole different person in both you and Kory.

Jackie: It felt better. I chose to get over myself and to act like a professional. Those choices made me more open to it.

Mike: How many physical ailments have you had since the second session? Any pain?

Jackie: None.

Mike: That’s perturbation. We feel like something terrible will happen, that there’s some risk to our being. But the truth is, not everyone will like us, and that’s okay. Imagine the effort it would take to please everyone. As a coaching company, we’re not for everyone. If you’re just here to take our tools and go, you’re not our client. The tools are valuable, but you need to know how to use them. Perturbation is similar—like when I went through it publicly with Brad Sugars at a sales masterclass. It felt fear-inducing, but I trusted Brad and got through it. It changed my ability to sell. The lesson isn’t that perturbation is fun. It’s not. It’s not designed to be fun. If you already know how to do something, you’re not growing. Perturbation challenges that, pushing you toward something better.

Jackie: Once I got over myself, good things started happening. Whatever was holding me back disappeared—just like that.

Mike: And that’s what happens to our clients when they push through it too. It’s easy to avoid new challenges because of perturbation, but when you break through, the results are immediate. If something in your life scares you, that’s an area to focus on. Whether you need to get over yourself, drop a belief, or face it head-on like I did, the results come right away.

Jackie: From an employee’s perspective, it’s important to understand how to manage those feelings during perturbation. How did you handle my reaction after the first time, Mike?

Mike: Well, this is what we’re paid to do—help people like you through it. You’re no different from any other client. When I saw your behavior, I assessed whether I’d pushed you hard enough, if I could live with you not getting through it, or if I needed you to quit. For you and Kory, as coaches, it was crucial to push through. With the work we’ve done, I knew it was just a belief holding you back. And you both have big goals, so these are skills you need. I knew we had to push, and when you didn’t quit, I knew you’d get through it. If you had quit, I would’ve pushed harder because this is essential for your success. If you’re listening and haven’t felt that fear of doing something different, then you’re holding yourself back in some area.

Jackie: Helping your team navigate through their own perturbation is also crucial. My reaction the first time wasn’t great—it was terrible.

Mike: The fastest way to get out of perturbation is to recognize it and get over yourself, which you did.

Jackie: But when managing people through it, understand that you might get some reaction. Don’t react back.

Mike: It’s not just discomfort; it’s a strong resistance. That’s how you know it’s perturbation, not just an excuse. I remember coaching an executive who thought his team was in perturbation because they didn’t want to do something. But two weeks later, when they bluntly told him off, he realized they were truly in perturbation. That’s when you start to pull them out of it.

Jackie: Exactly. You’re there to help them, but they have to want it. You can’t do the work for them.

Mike: Right. If you need to make a change in your business and are struggling with it, click the link below to set up a meeting with Jackie. She can help you work through it.

Jackie: We wanted to discuss this because when things change in your business, perturbation happens on both sides. Learning to work through it is key.

Mike: What a fun topic!

Jackie: Indeed. Until next time, bye!